JimT
Shootist of the Decade
Vanuatu
3756 Posts
Posted - 03/29/2006 : 10:03:43 AM
http://www.leverguns.com/africa/photos2.htm
When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace - Luke 11:21
Edited by - Hobie on 04/03/2006 3:11:40 PMHobie
Moderator
USA
19228 Posts
Wicked cool!
Sincerely,
Hobie
"We are all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best that we find in our travels is an honest friend." Robert Louis Stevenson
The Stonewall Brigade
Shooting with Hobie
Ram Hammer
Levergunner 2.0
USA
443 Posts
WOW Where do I sign up for the next trip.
But really honey. A college education is overrated
A bad day shooting is better than a good day at work!JimT
Shootist of the Decade
Vanuatu
3756 Posts
Originally posted by Ram Hammer
WOW
But really honey. A college education is overrated
A bad day shooting is better than a good day at work!
Keep checking back. When Chris gets ready we will be posting a Hunt for next year here on Leverguns.
When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace - Luke 11:21Pigboy Crabshaw
Levergunner 1.0
USA
97 Posts
That thing got a Hemi in it?.....Sweet!
Keep them pictures coming and you'll have a full hunting party plus next year. Thank for post-n them! -g
"Always carry a firearm east of Aldgate, Watson."Ben_Rumson
Senior Levergunner
USA
1833 Posts
Love'em
Ben Rumsonsteveb
Advanced Levergunner
USA
5053 Posts
Its a helluva thing killin a man,You take away all he's got,And all he's ever gonna have*Clint Eastwood*
Reload'n and Levergun'n
cjm135
Levergunner 3.0
USA
604 Posts
Great pic's. Who's the guy with the bloody arms and what happen? (Paco pic,4th row and on the right.) Chris Troskie
Levergunner 1.0
South Africa
86 Posts
Originally posted by cjm135
Great pic's. Who's the guy with the bloody arms and what happen? (Paco pic,4th row and on the right.)
That's what you look like after going after a Blue Wildebeest with a handgun.
Chris Troskie
A bad day out hunting beats a good day at the office
www.christroskiesafaris.comdumbert357
Levergunner 2.0
USA
284 Posts
Originally posted by Chris Troskie
quote:
Originally posted by cjm135
Great pic's. Who's the guy with the bloody arms and what happen? (Paco pic,4th row and on the right.)
That's what you look like after going after a Blue Wildebeest with a handgun.
Chris Troskie
A bad day out hunting beats a good day at the office
www.christroskiesafaris.com
took a while to reply, too busy laughing...
I am speaking out of turn here, as I was not in Africa and unlikely to be.
(can't help but ponder the notion of taking a impala w/ a .243 or 30/30, with a tolerant PH and 375 on standby to look after my fat old fuzzy, but it ain't ever gonna' happen)
By now you have figured out that there really are some folks who hang out here who are (without exaggeration) legendary in the North American shooting community and well connected to others who also are. Internet or no, a rare thing, no other forum in cyberspace like it. Rarer still, the common standards of conduct befitting gentlemen, in cyberspace or anywhere.
(Me *not* being one of those world-class types; which is part of what makes it so great, you can enjoy being here, whatever your level)
Anyway... just wanted to say, that whatever the pre-existing level of expertise here, it adds tremendous value for *all* of us, those who were there and those who were not, to have a PH hang out, and share those perspectives which can only be had by having "been there, done that".
Obliged to say also, that yourself and that cute little gal on the photo page sure remind me of a swell young couple we met years ago (who ran a canoe camp on the Buffalo National River in Arkansas). Seems like folks who have an appreciation of such things, and live it every day, are just naturally good company.
You ever come north, and don't mind fishin' with gators & moccasins & rattlers, or the sounds beagles and hawg-dawgs make, nor being unable to hear/see a North American Impala (whitetail buck) at more than 50 yards in the cypress creek bottoms, consider me standing in line to be one of those to welcome you. We don't do chili like them Texas boys, nor crawdads like them cajun lads, but we do right decent BBQ pork ribs.
PS
me, I favor Nosler partitions over cast
(sorry.. I just couldn't help saying that)
Chris Troskie
Levergunner 1.0
South Africa
86 Posts
Anyway... just wanted to say, that whatever the pre-existing level of expertise here, it adds tremendous value for *all* of us, those who were there and those who were not, to have a PH hang out, and share those perspectives which can only be had by having "been there, done that".
Obliged to say also, that yourself and that cute little gal on the photo page sure remind me of a swell young couple we met years ago (who ran a canoe camp on the Buffalo National River in Arkansas). Seems like folks who have an appreciation of such things, and live it every day, are just naturally good company.
You ever come north, and don't mind fishin' with gators & moccasins & rattlers, or the sounds beagles and hawg-dawgs make, nor being unable to hear/see a North American Impala (whitetail buck) at more than 50 yards in the cypress creek bottoms, consider me standing in line to be one of those to welcome you. We don't do chili like them Texas boys, nor crawdads like them cajun lads, but we do right decent BBQ pork ribs.
PS
me, I favor Nosler partitions over cast
(sorry.. I just couldn't help saying that)
Well thank you sir and more specifically for your offer - something I may well take you up on in future...
Yes, it is indeed an honor to be able to contribute my 2 cents worth to the forum. Being member of this forum is more like being part of a family than communicating with people I've never met.
Acasia thorn trees and bramble bush don't play with people crawling through them on the final stalk as JJ will attest to. There seems to be a perception that hunting on enclosed properties in SA is easy but as JJ (a very seasoned hunter) rightfully remarked: "There is no difference in the difficulty level between hunting buff in Tanzania and hunting in South Africa" (This directly after his stalk on the Wildebeest)
I should probably be careful in saying this but I personally prefer premium expanding bullets to cast bullets as well.
Chris Troskie
A bad day out hunting beats a good day at the office
www.christroskiesafaris.com
Edited by - Chris Troskie on 04/03/2006 02:29:55 AM45-70
Levergunner 3.0
USA
685 Posts
I should probably be careful in saying this, but I personally prefer premium expanding bullets to cast bullets as well.
Chris,
Of the 12 or so PH's that I have shared a fire with over my 2 trips over the pond to RSA, all have, without exception, shared the same strong opinion of premium-jacketed over anything cast/hardcast.
On the last trip, 2 very assertive experienced PH's asked several of us why some Americans are so narrow-minded about hunting Africa with cast/hard cast, when using a premium-jacketed bullet is the smart play, given all the money and time being invested, with lost animals and/or a long tracking effort/lost hunting time as a consequence...
I believe that most African game are not only tougher physically due to exstensive parasites, etc., but have an edge they must keep over the large predators present. Factor in the quick adrenaline rush they seem to instantly access and you have animals that can absorb a lot of punishment.
Most American species don't have that kind of edge, especially the deer, that most Americans are used to hunting from childhood, due to most, if not all predators being gone for decades, especially east of the Mississippi River. But, with the reintroduction of wolves and the bigger bears, like grizzly, bouncing back from the endangered list, maybe that will change in the years to come.
Elk and moose out west have a similar edge to maintain, but not to the degree that wildebeest, zebra, impala, warthog and other larger antelope must keep to survive and flourish with leopard, lion, cheetah, hyena and jackal on the hunt.
Just my opinion, after over 35 years hunting in the states and 2 trips to RSA, listening to some gnarly PH's around the fire every night...
"It's better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it."Chris Troskie
Levergunner 1.0
South Africa
86 Posts
Just my opinion, after over 35 years hunting in the states and 2 trips to RSA, listening to some gnarly PH's around the fire every night...
With respect to those who prefer cast bullets I think you are hitting the nail on the button. Exactly what the reasons are for the insistence of some to use bullets that they either cast themselves or those that they purchase I do not know. I doubt that it is the cost factor but I do know that in my experience bonded premium bullets are the way to go. In saying this; I don't mean to sound judgemental over those who prefer to hunt with cast as it is everyones prerogative to hunt with what he/she feels comfortable with.
If you look at the average cost of a hunt, the saving in using cast bullets to hunt your game with is negligible. And this does not only apply to overseas clients - it applies to local SA hunters as well.
Many local hunters (I used to be one of them) use soft points loaded in ammunition locally manufactured by a company called PMP and a lot has been written about the pro's and con's of using this ammunition on African game. I should say that I have successfully used this (affordable) ammo on smaller game such as impala, blesbok and duiker but to me the high cost of larger game species does not warrant using ammo that may not be up to the task.
Talking about adrenaline...
On my last hunt, my client shot a Buffalo bull out of a herd of about 40 - 50 at app 80 yards with his .375 H&H, loaded with Federal's Cape Claw ammunition. Some of the herd members were lying down and at the shot they all jumped up and started milling around. The reason? Because we'd been watching the herd for about three quarters of an hour without them being aware of us and we didn't show ourselves to the herd after the shot so they still didn't know that we were there. The buffalo that was shot at went down within seconds after being hit and the rest of the herd continued milling around him - trying to push him out of the herd. We eventually showed ourselves to the herd so that they could take off and by the time we got to the shot buffalo we found him dead - exactly where he had collapsed.
If the buffalo had known about us beforehand, I am convinced that the one that had taken the hit (in spite of the hit being a lethal one) would have run off into dense bush as they normally do and we'd have had the un-enviable task of going after it - not knowing whether it had taken a fatal hit or not. Fact is that, because there was no adrenaline, and because the bonded bullet did its stuff, the buff went down without knowing what had hit him.
Chris Troskie
A bad day out hunting beats a good day at the office
www.christroskiesafaris.com
Edited by - Hobie on 04/03/2006 3:15:31 PM45-70
Levergunner 3.0
USA
685 Posts
Chris,
quote:
On my last hunt, my client shot a Buffalo bull out of a herd of about 40 - 50 at app 80 yards with his .375 H&H, loaded with Federal's Cape Claw ammunition. Some of the herd members were lying down and at the shot they all jumped up and started milling around. The reason? Because we'd been watching the herd for about three quarters of an hour without them being aware of us and we didn't show ourselves to the herd after the shot so they still didn't know that we were there. The buffalo that was shot at went down within seconds after being hit and the rest of the herd continued milling around him - trying to push him out of the herd. We eventually showed ourselves to the herd so that they could take off and by the time we got to the shot buffalo we found him dead - exactly where he had collapsed.
If the buffalo had known about us beforehand, I am convinced that the one that had taken the hit (in spite of the hit being a lethal one) would have run off into dense bush as they normally do and we'd have had the un-enviable task of going after it - not knowing whether it had taken a fatal hit or not. Fact is that, because there was no adrenaline, and because the bonded bullet did its stuff, the buff went down without knowing what had hit him.
That's a great experience in how to hunt DG, if at all possible. Evidently the conditions were right and the shot was on the mark with the right bullet...game over.
That is the exception, instead of the rule...right?
"It's better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it."
Edited by - 45-70 on 04/03/2006 08:19:34 AMRAC
Levergunner 2.0
Mongolia
253 Posts
My thoughts on cast... I used a bonded bullet in my 45-70 and would do so again. I feel that it is superior to a cast bullet. Yes, any bullet will kill if properly put into the right place but some kill better than others. The question "how dead is dead?" does not apply when your animal dies but you can't find it. I enjoy casting and used a homemade cast bullet in my 500 Linebaugh.(air cooled wheelweight) What a learning experience that was! On an animal that is around the same size as a whitetail buck (but heavier bone structure)I had a bullet failure opon striking the shoulder. While it destroyed the shoulder, it did not drive straight and missed the vitals. This same bullet will sail right through a whitetail. Maybe it was too fast, too slow, now heavy enough, or not hard enough. NEXT TIME...I will go with a slightly heavier, slighty faster, and harder COMMERCIAL cast bullet. Could I get my bullet to work again? Probably. I would harden it and drive it a little faster. Trouble is, when you hit an animal in Africa you pay the trophy fee and I would like a little more insurance and reliability. Icelander
Levergunner 1.0
USA
65 Posts
I'd like to correct something Paco put in his article that relates to this topic. The ammunition I used and loaned to Paco were loaded with 43gr of RL-15 behind SPEER Grand Slam premium bullets (Paco said Swift, and that was incorrect). We recovered one of the bullets from Paco's gemsbok and one from my warthog. The one in his gemsbok held together but the nose crushed straight back rather than opening up. My first shot on the warthog was high, clipping the top of his spine, going through. The recovered bullet was from the kill shot at 20 feet. It opened up partly, but not a classic mushroom. Unfortunately they did not recover the bullet from my wildebeest, and the impala was also a through shot so the bullet was lost. Bottom line, the Speer did OK, but not ideal. I did not load the maximum book recommended load 'cause I got better accuracy at 43gr. The chrono velocity was just under 2100fps at 10 feet. Perhaps this is not fast enough for this bullet? I intend to try to get an answer from Speer.
It may be for leverguns with less than magnum velocities there is a preferred bonded bullet. Any experience? Of course, with the BLR I'm not limited to flat nose bullets.RAC
Levergunner 2.0
Mongolia
253 Posts
Hi John. You might want to look into using these bullets.
Roger
http://user857371.wx7.registeredsite.com/miva/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=SS&Category_Code=35JJ Miller
Shootist
USA
101 Posts
The bloody arms were mine, as were the bloody legs and various other body parts.
See.......this is what I ment when I was telling about me and Paco riding on the truck talking about cast bullets, their construction, velocities ect. which drove Chris nuts. We were talking when we should have been hunting.
But I still think a PROPERLY cast bullet of correct weight driven to 1250 fps will work just fine.
Its not about cost, on the contrary, it cost me MORE to use cast bullets but I'm OK with that. Its about learning. And the next time I go out of respect for the game I will have correct bullets.
Poor Chris has taken on a bunch here that may drive him crazy before its over............................JJJJ Miller
Shootist
USA
101 Posts
John I have your bullet, or Paco's, whichever the case may be...........JJ RAC
Levergunner 2.0
Mongolia
253 Posts
JJ, have you had a chance to test those bullets I gave you? Paco said they have a brinnel hardness of 11-12. flatnose
Levergunner 3.0
USA
759 Posts
Hey guys, what happens to all the meat rfom those critters? Did any of you try the south african version of jerky. Its real good stuff. Not sure but I think some of it is from the bleesbok. Very tasty.
