Hobie
Moderator
USA
19228 Posts
Posted - 10/31/2006 : 9:17:57 PM
Ok, new topic.
Fastest levergunner (no points for accuracy). We need rules first.
1. Like guns against each other. I.e. Win M94 vs Win M94, 1886 vs 1886, etc.
2. Full power ammo. None of that wimpy stuff the gamers use.
3. Allow 6 months for us non-gamers to get some practice AND find whatever it is we need to compete. Actually shooting for competition to take place in the April-June 2007 time frame (will entertain some of us while others are in Africa).
4. Video (heck we're all about watching) showing timer and shooter required. We'll have the time necessary to try to get this together.
5. Start is hands at shoulder level, gun loaded (chamber empty) on table/shooting bench in front of shooter.
6. End at last round out. # of rounds determined by rifle model/chambering.
We could add that one must put all rounds into a mansized target at 25 yards. I just happen to have a couple hundred paper silhouettes. Shipping MIGHT be a problem, though.
Prizes.
1. Bragging rights.
2. I don't know, maybe folks will commit something like at a muzzleloading blanket match.
Any input? Comments? Questions?
Sincerely,
Hobie
"We are all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best that we find in our travels is an honest friend." Robert Louis Stevenson
The Stonewall Brigade
Shooting with Hobie
Griff
Advanced Levergunner
USA
5495 Posts
I'd suggest we move them targets out a little farther. Say around 100-150 yards for those using rifle cartridges, and 75-100 yards for the pistol caliber shooters.
What we do at our CAS club for a fastest rifle side match is set the targets out about 125 yards, then it's the fastest 7 hits on the steel to determine the winner.
I have an idea for a prize, but will have to find out if the item is still available, and what the cost is.
Griff & "Poco"There is a fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness." SASS/CMSA #93
Edited by - Griff on 10/31/2006 10:17:28 PMJerryB
Senior Levergunner
USA
1122 Posts
Hobie, I'll give it a try with my 92 32-20 and a 94 30wcf,maybe my grandson's 1894 357, sounds like it's time for something like this. Maybe get together some place with a few others for the day to film each other.
JerryOld Savage
Advanced Levergunner
USA
7192 Posts
This should be very interesting.
"Here in the High Desert of Southern California"crs
Levergunner 3.0
USA
558 Posts
Sounds like fun. Can a person enter with more than one rifle type? For instance, 1892 and 1886?
CRS, NRA Endowment Member
Hobie
Moderator
USA
19228 Posts
Originally posted by JerryB
Hobie, I'll give it a try with my 92 32-20 and a 94 30wcf,maybe my grandson's 1894 357, sounds like it's time for something like this. Maybe get together some place with a few others for the day to film each other.
Jerry
Sincerely,
Hobie
"We are all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best that we find in our travels is an honest friend." Robert Louis Stevenson
The Stonewall Brigade
Shooting with Hobie
Hobie
Moderator
USA
19228 Posts
Originally posted by Griff
I'd suggest we move them targets out a little farther. Say around 100-150 yards for those using rifle cartridges, and 75-100 yards for the pistol caliber shooters.
What we do at our CAS club for a fastest rifle side match is set the targets out about 125 yards, then it's the fastest 7 hits on the steel to determine the winner.
I have an idea for a prize, but will have to find out if the item is still available, and what the cost is.
Griff & "Poco"There is a fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
As you can see, I took your enthusiasm to heart.
Most fellows seem to be limited to about 100 yard ranges. 100 yards seems good to me.
Sincerely,
Hobie
"We are all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best that we find in our travels is an honest friend." Robert Louis Stevenson
The Stonewall Brigade
Shooting with Hobie
Hobie
Moderator
USA
19228 Posts
Originally posted by crs
Sounds like fun. Can a person enter with more than one rifle type? For instance, 1892 and 1886?
CRS, NRA Endowment Member
I'm thinking the prizes can be whatever you'd like to contribute. Say 100 rounds once fired brass, a box of bullets, sling, swivels, are a few things that come to mind. The things need to be able to go through the mail AND the contributor has to bear the shipping cost so lighter items might be very popular contributions.
Sincerely,
Hobie
"We are all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best that we find in our travels is an honest friend." Robert Louis Stevenson
The Stonewall Brigade
Shooting with Hobie
Steve Collins
Levergunner 2.0
USA
259 Posts
Location ideas? Something central like Missouri, or even Texas. Your thoughts?
If you're gonna shoot, shoot, don't talk!KirkD
Desktop Artiste
Canada
4392 Posts
The videos showing fellows cranking out full-load, .45-70 rounds as fast as they can, while still attempting to stay standing, will be fun to watch.
__________________________________________________
Kirk ... a fellow who loves shooting fine old Winchesters.Old Savage
Advanced Levergunner
USA
7192 Posts
Yeah - that's kinda what I said!!!!!!!!!!
"Here in the High Desert of Southern California"Old Savage
Advanced Levergunner
USA
7192 Posts
Her's another idea. Take a pie plate - have to hit it 2 out of three times and see who can do this and how far. Keep moving it out until only one remains. Categories of course. Iron, Scopes, pointy bullets, flat bullets.
"Here in the High Desert of Southern California"Hobie
Moderator
USA
19228 Posts
Originally posted by Steve Collins
Location ideas? Something central like Missouri, or even Texas. Your thoughts?
If you're gonna shoot, shoot, don't talk!
I'm back towards leaning towards 25 yard/meter targets because it is only at short ranges that you find yourself committed to putting out the firepower. Any comments on that idea?
Sincerely,
Hobie
"We are all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best that we find in our travels is an honest friend." Robert Louis Stevenson
The Stonewall Brigade
Shooting with Hobie
Hobie
Moderator
USA
19228 Posts
Originally posted by KirkD
The videos showing fellows cranking out full-load, .45-70 rounds as fast as they can, while still attempting to stay standing, will be fun to watch.
__________________________________________________
Kirk ... a fellow who loves shooting fine old Winchesters.
I just hope I don't embarass myself!
Sincerely,
Hobie
"We are all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best that we find in our travels is an honest friend." Robert Louis Stevenson
The Stonewall Brigade
Shooting with Hobie
JerryB
Senior Levergunner
USA
1122 Posts
Hobie, being in north central Arkansas I would be able to make south or central Missouri. I reckon if them old boys up there could put something together, even as far as JimT's place or will he be gone by then?
JerryHobie
Moderator
USA
19228 Posts
I don't know about big get togethers but some folks who have or have access to timers will be needed. Maybe some of the CAS guys can help. It should be interesting to them to be certain.
Sincerely,
Hobie
"We are all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best that we find in our travels is an honest friend." Robert Louis Stevenson
The Stonewall Brigade
Shooting with Hobie
KirkD
Desktop Artiste
Canada
4392 Posts
If it's rate of fire you want, then the 25 yard range would be the way to go. Timed shooting at 100 yards, where you have to hit a much smaller target, would really slow down the rate of fire. At 25 yards, you can crank them out as fast as you can work the lever and still be on a man-sized target.
__________________________________________________
Kirk ... a fellow who loves shooting fine old Winchesters.Griff
Advanced Levergunner
USA
5495 Posts
Yea, its usually a fair turnout @ our CAS club for these kind of mtches, but is still only about 10%. Some of the real fast guys know they ain't accurate at real rifle distances, so they abstain. I like the little longer range so ya gotta be a 'lil more deliberate. But I can go faster @ 25yds. But @ that range, I recommend paper targets.
Griff & "Poco"There is a fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
Hobie
Moderator
USA
19228 Posts
I have paper silhouettes. Maybe I should dig them out (I've got something setting on top that goes out Thursday night) and post a pic. I'd be happy to provide them but need to work out details on mailing the targets.
Sincerely,
Hobie
"We are all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best that we find in our travels is an honest friend." Robert Louis Stevenson
The Stonewall Brigade
Shooting with Hobie
ElyBoy
Senior Levergunner
USA
1023 Posts
Thanks for NOTHING Hobie.
I have never considered shooting my levers rapid fire.
Now Kirk will get the satisfaction of see me end up on my keister trying to rapid fire my 45-70.
Maybe I will give it a go with my 71, or BLR .358.
Hobie, do I get the rules right when I think that we can take times on more than one lever???
Eric
ElyBoy
NRA Life Member
Minnesota DNR Firearms Safety InstructorBramble
Levergunner 3.0
United Kingdom
539 Posts
Hobie,
How would it be if I start the ball rolling for prizes for the pistol calibre rifles ( as that is what I shoot ).
I have an account at Brownells so I will pledge $ 50.00 of anything the winner wants mailed to anywher in the US. Just need you to e-mail me the winners details and what they want Hobie. If the winner is in the UK
Does that work for you ?
Regards.
PS 25 yards would work better here as we are distence limited on most of our ranges and the longer ones don't like informal comps.
For the load thing can we agree a minimium power, that should cover most peoples thing about gaming loads.caco
Levergunner 2.0
USA
477 Posts
Like the idea have a timmer will travel a couple hundred miles-maybe more
.
depending on range you could have differnt distance catagories ( the more shooting the better). Actually you can miss close targets very easily when you get carried away
The less you shoot for the happier the resulteconomical plaques attest to the results and verify bragging rights with some ting that will last and displayed if you like
Keep planning
Dave1894
Levergunner 3.0
USA
796 Posts
How expensive are those timers?
Philcaco
Levergunner 2.0
USA
477 Posts
Elyboy;
Establish a realistic load level for comp like the trapdoorloads--er lighter. Thats where taking the money out of it helps keep the compititon honest and friendly.
Davecaco
Levergunner 2.0
USA
477 Posts
1894 120$ give er take
DaveBosco
Levergunner 3.0
USA
569 Posts
Sounds like fun.
Know your target and beyond!
Go big or go home!Hobie
Moderator
USA
19228 Posts
Originally posted by ElyBoy
Thanks for NOTHING Hobie.
I have never considered shooting my levers rapid fire.
Now Kirk will get the satisfaction of see me end up on my keister trying to rapid fire my 45-70.
Maybe I will give it a go with my 71, or BLR .358.
Hobie, do I get the rules right when I think that we can take times on more than one lever???
Eric
ElyBoy
NRA Life Member
Minnesota DNR Firearms Safety Instructor
We're still working out the rules. My idea is that because each model is so distinctly different, eg. the M94 Winchester and the 1873 Winchester (and clones) that it wouldn't be fair for the M94 shooter to compete against the 1873 shooter. So, we'd have different competitions for shooters of each model of gun and so YES you could compete with every model if you wanted.
Sincerely,
Hobie
"We are all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best that we find in our travels is an honest friend." Robert Louis Stevenson
The Stonewall Brigade
Shooting with Hobie
Hobie
Moderator
USA
19228 Posts
Originally posted by Bramble
Hobie,
How would it be if I start the ball rolling for prizes for the pistol calibre rifles ( as that is what I shoot ).
I have an account at Brownells so I will pledge $ 50.00 of anything the winner wants mailed to anywher in the US. Just need you to e-mail me the winners details and what they want Hobie. If the winner is in the UK
Does that work for you ?
Regards.
PS 25 yards would work better here as we are distence limited on most of our ranges and the longer ones don't like informal comps.
For the load thing can we agree a minimium power, that should cover most peoples thing about gaming loads.
Sincerely,
Hobie
"We are all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best that we find in our travels is an honest friend." Robert Louis Stevenson
The Stonewall Brigade
Shooting with Hobie
Hobie
Moderator
USA
19228 Posts
I'd also like folks to use "real" loads, not cowboy loads. E.g. in the .45-70 you'd have to use either factory loads or equivalent reloads. "Cowboy" loads being a no-no or in a different class/sub-class.
Sincerely,
Hobie
"We are all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best that we find in our travels is an honest friend." Robert Louis Stevenson
The Stonewall Brigade
Shooting with Hobie
Griff
Advanced Levergunner
USA
5495 Posts
OOOhhhh, sub-categories..... Black Powder!!!
Griff & "Poco"There is a fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
Edited by - Griff on 11/01/2006 8:48:33 PMElyBoy
Senior Levergunner
USA
1023 Posts
My son just came home from his job at the Gun Club, and I informed him that next spring, he will be assigned to video me doing rapid fire with the 45-70.
He informed me that I would blow off my reconstructed shoulder.
I told him to just watch me do it, and offered him the opportunity to have as big of kiahunas as his old man has, and try it after me.
He is thinking about it.
He will do it. The apple doesn't roll far from the tree.
Eric
ElyBoy
NRA Life Member
Minnesota DNR Firearms Safety InstructorSteve Collins
Levergunner 2.0
USA
259 Posts
I've got timers and a couple of ranges we can use. I might be able to get some of the CAS shooters from the club to come out, as well. If you can make it to Shorter, AL or Columbus, GA we're in business.
If you're gonna shoot, shoot, don't talk!JerryB
Senior Levergunner
USA
1122 Posts
That's a good offer I hope that those in your area can make it.
JerryCrawdaddyJim
Levergunner 2.0
USA
230 Posts
Now my rifle shoots two types of cartridges? Should I shoot the 454casull or the 45colt?
FREEDOM, No one gives it to you. You have to earn it.KirkD
Desktop Artiste
Canada
4392 Posts
Originally posted by ElyBoy
My son just came home from his job at the Gun Club, and I informed him that next spring, he will be assigned to video me doing rapid fire with the 45-70.
He informed me that I would blow off my reconstructed shoulder.
I told him to just watch me do it, and offered him the opportunity to have as big of kiahunas as his old man has, and try it after me.
Whoooeee! I'm looking forward to seeing that video, Eric!Just to pull a fast one on your son, you could use 405 grain bullets loaded up to standard factory velocities, but when your son takes his turn, you could slip him a magazine full of 405 grain bullets loaded up to 1,800 fps. After he's fired off his mag full and is picking himself up off the ground and wondering how you could churn out the same number of rounds just fine, you could let him know the trick you pulled on him.
__________________________________________________
Kirk ... a fellow who loves shooting fine old Winchesters.Hobie
Moderator
USA
19228 Posts
Originally posted by CrawdaddyJim
Now my rifle shoots two types of cartridges? Should I shoot the 454casull or the 45colt?
FREEDOM, No one gives it to you. You have to earn it.
Sincerely,
Hobie
"We are all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best that we find in our travels is an honest friend." Robert Louis Stevenson
The Stonewall Brigade
Shooting with Hobie
Old Savage
Advanced Levergunner
USA
7192 Posts
That 454 in the light rifle would really be a sight. Maybe best to have medical professionals on site for that.
"Here in the High Desert of Southern California"glbrt352
Levergunner 3.0
USA
755 Posts
I'm back towards leaning towards 25 yard/meter targets because it is only at short ranges that you find yourself committed to putting out the firepower. Any comments on that idea?
Sincerely,
Hobie
"We are all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best that we find in our travels is an honest friend." Robert Louis Stevenson
The Stonewall Brigade
Shooting with Hobie
Yeah, I think that 25 yards is a good setup.
You all better watch out, I am pretty fast with my 9422!
I love cheap guns.dumbert357
Levergunner 2.0
USA
284 Posts
Originally posted by Hobie
Ok, new topic.
Fastest levergunner (no points for accuracy). We need rules first.
1. Like guns against each other. I.e. Win M94 vs Win M94, 1886 vs 1886, etc.
2. Full power ammo. None of that wimpy stuff the gamers use.
3. Allow 6 months for us non-gamers to get some practice AND find whatever it is we need to compete. Actually shooting for competition to take place in the April-June 2007 time frame (will entertain some of us while others are in Africa).
4. Video (heck we're all about watching) showing timer and shooter required. We'll have the time necessary to try to get this together.
5. Start is hands at shoulder level, gun loaded (chamber empty) on table/shooting bench in front of shooter.
6. End at last round out. # of rounds determined by rifle model/chambering.
We could add that one must put all rounds into a mansized target at 25 yards. I just happen to have a couple hundred paper silhouettes. Shipping MIGHT be a problem, though.
Prizes.
1. Bragging rights.
2. I don't know, maybe folks will commit something like at a muzzleloading blanket match.
Any input? Comments? Questions?
Sincerely,
Hobie
"We are all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best that we find in our travels is an honest friend." Robert Louis Stevenson
The Stonewall Brigade
Shooting with Hobie
"Like guns against each other"
(Win 9422, Marlin 39A, Henry, Browning BL22 (Barbie) ????
"Full power ammo", "None of that wimpy stuff the gamers use"
(do 22LR rimfire count?? 'tis a full power *rifle* cartridge, now just say it ain't so...)
"at 25 yards" (shucks, a 9" paper plate @50 yards ought to do, hits in a 3" plate centered "Shoot-N-Cee" count double (??) IF can dump 10 rounds of solid hits in the plate within 6 seconds ??????
prizes ???
Winner gets to try and choke down BertBurnt BBQ pork ribs with nuthin' but Budweiser to wash it down with, whilst the loser giggles, and the GSD makes certain you don't bite the loser by mistake
Thomasville, Georgia, TCSC semi-public/private range, by appointment and disappoinment only...
(only thing better than playing and winning is playing and losing)
PS
Budweiser verbotten until until all guns are unloaded, cleaned, and put properly stored/locked away, off-range, and the shootin' light has faded to no-shootin' light. Ice Tea available upon request.
Just me and BarbieSlowhand Teek
Senior Levergunner
USA
1718 Posts
Hobie, exactly what is a "full-powered" .45 Colt round? Most 45 Colt available IS the cowboy action stuff, but loaded to original velocities of around 800-850 fps from a revolver.
And what about guns that shoot both .38 and .357? If we start having too many categories, we could end up with about as many categories as shooters! But of course, I'm thinking the point is just to see how fast some of us can shoot. Or at least TRY to shoot!
Now if I can just find a range that will let me shoot more than one round per second or so, I just might start practicin'!
It's gonna be fun, nonetheless.
TeekGriff
Advanced Levergunner
USA
5495 Posts
Slowhand, I ain't Hobie, but I'd call factory ammo in the .45 Colt "full-house" ammo. The cowboy action stuff is loaded lighter than the stuff in the green and yellow boxes, which w/a 250gr LRN is stated to be 860fps. And a 250gr lead bullet outta a revolver @ 860fps would be considered safe outta most rifles, yea, it can be loaded hotter, but in my 1873 Uberti it ain't!
And Winchester's loading is listed @860fps for their 255gr Super-X load, whereas their "Cowboy" load is only @ 750fps. Either load yours to at least 860fps w/a 250 or 255gr lead bullet and shoot away, or just stay away from Winchester's "brown box" stuff (or equivalents) & I won't protest!
100fps may not seem like much, but it certainly is when speed is the name of the game!
Griff & "Poco"There is a fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
Edit: Let's not turn this into an IPSC "power-factor" contest. We're mostly adults (at least the rest of you are), and certainly understand the difference between "gamer", or "mouse-phart" loads, and factory equivalent loadings.
Edited by - Griff on 11/04/2006 09:20:59 AMHobie
Moderator
USA
19228 Posts
Thanks Griff!
I think that if we just specify the load used I can categorize the class. In my opinion the gamers should be competing against the "hunters"/full-power shooters of any cartridge. If somebody wants to demonstrate how fast they can run their 1886 carbine in .50-110 I'm all for that but they shouldn't compete against a .38 Spec tuned Marlin Cowboy Competition.
Could somebody familiar with timers step up and give us a lesson so that we can run something reasonably right here. I know next to nothing about timers.
Sincerely,
Hobie
"We are all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best that we find in our travels is an honest friend." Robert Louis Stevenson
The Stonewall Brigade
Shooting with Hobie
Griff
Advanced Levergunner
USA
5495 Posts
Ok, in my limited experience w/CAS timers, there are two basic ways to operate the initiation of the timer.
1. Set for immediate start. When the button is pushed, time startd. On some models it is started when the button is released, so the shoter does a "self-start". These are the type preferred by the fast-draw crowd.
2. Set for random delay. In this mode the timer randomly delays the buzzer and start of timing from 1-3 secs.
Oh yea, all of the above is after you remove the back cover and insert the appropriate size battery/s per the units instructions. (Had to throw that in as I know there are some Marine E-2s among us!)
Griff & "Poco"There is a fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
Edited by - Griff on 11/04/2006 11:01:29 AMHobie
Moderator
USA
19228 Posts
So it seems that self-start would be the best for our mix of shooters. What do you think?
How is the timer stopped? I know you might think this is dumb but the last "timer" I used was a stop watch!
Sincerely,
Hobie
"We are all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best that we find in our travels is an honest friend." Robert Louis Stevenson
The Stonewall Brigade
Shooting with Hobie
Edited by - Hobie on 11/04/2006 10:53:50 AMGriff
Advanced Levergunner
USA
5495 Posts
Yea, I thought that ques. might come up. The tiomer simply displays the elapsed time to the last "shot" it "heard". And gets reset when the start button is pushed again.
Griff & "Poco"There is a fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
Edited by - Griff on 11/04/2006 11:02:58 AMHobie
Moderator
USA
19228 Posts
Originally posted by Griff
Yea, I thought that ques. might come up. The tiomer simply displays the elapsed time to the last "shot" it "heard". And gets reset when the start button is pushed again.
Griff & "Poco"There is a fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
Ah, I see said the blind man. That would work. I imagine that some poor soul is going to have set up his timer and camera such that he can record without assistance.
Any recommendations on timers for those who might like to buy one?
Sincerely,
Hobie
"We are all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best that we find in our travels is an honest friend." Robert Louis Stevenson
The Stonewall Brigade
Shooting with Hobie
Texican
Levergunner 1.0
USA
52 Posts
Originally posted by Hobie
I'd also like folks to use "real" loads, not cowboy loads. E.g. in the .45-70 you'd have to use either factory loads or equivalent reloads. "Cowboy" loads being a no-no or in a different class/sub-class.
Hobie
I feign objection! My 'cowboy' loaded 357's clock at near 1400 fps out of my rifle. Been using, and winning with, the same load in competition since '94
That being said 25 yds is for speed (pistol caliber), maybe 50 for bufflers. 100+ yards is for accuracy (with time as tie breaker). You did say 'fastest', not 'accelerated silhouette'. Also, will you count target rings (hope not) or just hits (preferred, 'fastest' remember)?
Texican
Gentlemanly Rogue, Projectilist of Distinction and Son of the Old RepublicHobie
Moderator
USA
19228 Posts
Originally posted by Texican
quote:
Originally posted by Hobie
I'd also like folks to use "real" loads, not cowboy loads. E.g. in the .45-70 you'd have to use either factory loads or equivalent reloads. "Cowboy" loads being a no-no or in a different class/sub-class.
Hobie
I feign objection! My 'cowboy' loaded 357's clock at near 1400 fps out of my rifle. Been using, and winning with, the same load in competition since '94
That being said 25 yds is for speed (pistol caliber), maybe 50 for bufflers. 100+ yards is for accuracy (with time as tie breaker). You did say 'fastest', not 'accelerated silhouette'. Also, will you count target rings (hope not) or just hits (preferred, 'fastest' remember)?
Texican
Gentlemanly Rogue, Projectilist of Distinction and Son of the Old Republic
Sincerely,
Hobie
"We are all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best that we find in our travels is an honest friend." Robert Louis Stevenson
The Stonewall Brigade
Shooting with Hobie
Griff
Advanced Levergunner
USA
5495 Posts
The first timers I bought for our club were made by Competition Electronics. This was the ProTimer. There have since been the intro of two other models: the Pocket Pro and Pocket Pro II for the interested, they're having a special, buy 4 get 1 free! I'd certainly go in 1/5 to get one! They are located in Rockford, IL
The other major supplier of timers is Pact, Inc. They have two models: the MKIV Competition Timer/Chronograph and the Club Timer III. Their suggested retail pricing is $199.95 for the MKIV and $129.95 for the Club Timer. (They are located in Grand Prairie, TX.)
Even though Pact is located close to me, I prefer the CompElectr. units. For three major reasons, the products are just about fool proof, they are easy to use, and lastly, (very important to ME) is that when I first started our CAS club here in North Texas (in PACT's backyard so to speak), Pact would not sell their product to our club. However, that need not influence anyone's decision except mine.In their (PACT) defense, I understand that they have become a strong supporter of Cowboy Action Shooting and such clubs.
In fact, our club now uses the PACT, Inc. "Club Timer", ain't sure of which model, but it looks like the one on their website.
However, I'll still buy the Competition Electronics for my personal use.
Griff & "Poco"There is a fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
Hobie
Moderator
USA
19228 Posts
I take it the Pocket ProII would work for this and other uses. That would make it $103.96 per unit exclusive of tax and shipping as applicable.
Sincerely,
Hobie
"We are all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best that we find in our travels is an honest friend." Robert Louis Stevenson
The Stonewall Brigade
Shooting with Hobie
getitdone1
Advanced Levergunner
USA
2085 Posts
KirkD,
Great idea and I consider it a "must include" in the fast lever gun shooting. You might need about a 20 ft square target!
Don McCullough
quote:
Originally posted by KirkD
The videos showing fellows cranking out full-load, .45-70 rounds as fast as they can, while still attempting to stay standing, will be fun to watch.
__________________________________________________
Kirk ... a fellow who loves shooting fine old Winchesters.
Adirondack_Jack
Levergunner 3.0
744 Posts
Make it simple. Use a target consisting of one page (not an open double page) of a standard broadsheet newspaper, at whatever range ya like, but since speed is the object not over 25 yards. If ya don't get the newspaper, steal (er borrow) yer neighbor's, just take their interests into account when ya decide which page to purloin :) )
Now, I read most of the stuff about ammo above, but what about rifles themselves. I am here to tell you non-CAS folks, if ya never handled a really slicked and tricked levergun, it ain't yer uncle Red's thuty-thuty these guys are running.
A short stroked pistol calier '66 or '73 winny, or Marlin 1894 is a really different machine once the top smiths get done with 'em than yer out-of-box examples of the same gun.
An example, my essentially stock 1894 Marlin in .44 mag has a 6 inch lever throw and requires well over 6 lbs of effoirt to pull open the lever. My match rifles, also 1894 Marlins, have a 4.5/8 inch lever throw and require alittle over ONE pound of effort to pull open, meaning I can plant my thumb at the joint between the steel and the wood, beside the hammer, and simply flick my fingers to cycle it. That's a whole different gun compared to the .44.
Now, as the SASS gods have found out, saying "stock" rifle and policing the same are night and day. When you inject a timer into shooting competition, out come the stones and 1200 wet or dry and the infamous dremel tool can be heard revving in the background.
Good luck.JerryB
Senior Levergunner
USA
1122 Posts
AJ I know what you are saying is true but I'm old and stubborn enough to still try my hand against the big boys. I hope I can get someplace where they have a timer. I am in north central Arkansas.
JerryGriff
Advanced Levergunner
USA
5495 Posts
AJ,
In answer to your concerns, I'll propose a solution. I will bring a timer, my box stock 1979 .30-30 Winchester 94 and we'll just travel around the country letting everyone willing to plunk down the price of a blanket price, compete with the same rifle. Stopping @ Wally World to buy some factory ammo and we'll all have the same disadvantage.
Not...!!!!! We'll all have some advantage or disadvantage in comparison to the top CAS guys. It's called practice. While I've smoothed up my '92s, essentially they and my '73 is box stock as they don't have any short stroke kit installed. I haven't ever been a "top CAS" guy, ain't likely ever to be, but am still willing to go out there shoot amongst 'em. It's all about doing the best "I" can, not about whether they have some advantage or not. I happen to like the idea of using factory equivalent ammo. Them fast CAS guys, will still likely be faster than us less practiced/experienced shooters. I feel I have as good a chance as anyone with the rifle cartridges in either the '94 or '86 class. I may have my pants spanked, but stepping up and playin' with what I brung is part of the game.
If you think you have an unfair advantage, and don't think that's fair to the rest of us, step aside and act as sole judge and arbitrator of the rules....Naw, I'd rather compete with ya, than have ya do that!
I do think we're going to have some interesting and entertaining video to watch. I'm planning/hoping on doing a little preview after our cowboy action match the second weekend in Dec. And, I'll post the results. If everyone wants that to be my official entry, fine. I'm looking forward to it. If nothing else, it'll either give everyone a goal, or a loud laugh when they realize just how slow I am!
Griff & "Poco"There is a fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
Hobie
Moderator
USA
19228 Posts
Originally posted by Adirondack_Jack
Make it simple. Use a target consisting of one page (not an open double page) of a standard broadsheet newspaper, at whatever range ya like, but since speed is the object not over 25 yards. If ya don't get the newspaper, steal (er borrow) yer neighbor's, just take their interests into account when ya decide which page to purloin :) )
Now, I read most of the stuff about ammo above, but what about rifles themselves. I am here to tell you non-CAS folks, if ya never handled a really slicked and tricked levergun, it ain't yer uncle Red's thuty-thuty these guys are running.
A short stroked pistol calier '66 or '73 winny, or Marlin 1894 is a really different machine once the top smiths get done with 'em than yer out-of-box examples of the same gun.
An example, my essentially stock 1894 Marlin in .44 mag has a 6 inch lever throw and requires well over 6 lbs of effoirt to pull open the lever. My match rifles, also 1894 Marlins, have a 4.5/8 inch lever throw and require alittle over ONE pound of effort to pull open, meaning I can plant my thumb at the joint between the steel and the wood, beside the hammer, and simply flick my fingers to cycle it. That's a whole different gun compared to the .44.
Now, as the SASS gods have found out, saying "stock" rifle and policing the same are night and day. When you inject a timer into shooting competition, out come the stones and 1200 wet or dry and the infamous dremel tool can be heard revving in the background.
Good luck.
I like the idea of a standard sheet of paper (8.5x11 inches) being the target. It is cheap, readily available, approximates man size, etc.
I think the idea is to see how fast that a forumite, eg. me, can run any one of his guns, eg. my 1886 SRC, with standard loads and hit a target. Fun to watch, hence the video idea. I kinda like the idea of classes by rifles. If there is an 1886 that has been made "race ready" so be it. If nothing else those differences will give the guys fodder for many a discussion.
Sincerely,
Hobie
"We are all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best that we find in our travels is an honest friend." Robert Louis Stevenson
The Stonewall Brigade
Shooting with Hobie
Meanc
Levergunner 3.0
925 Posts
Hey Hobie,
I was at the track the other night and can still post a 4.9sec 40yd.
In the 100yd I could only get 12.6sec.
I've got a Timex stopwatch, so I'm set in that dept. Just let me know when ya'll wanna' do this. Someone can use their lever as a starter.
...and I don't think he even knows it...Walks around with a half-ass grin...If he feels fear, he don't show it. Just rides into hell and back again.Adirondack_Jack
Levergunner 3.0
744 Posts
While not conforming to the proposed set up exactly, this is about where I'd run (and I'm NOT fast)
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v54/adirondack_jack/?action=view¤t=Marlin9roundswmv.flvHobie
Moderator
USA
19228 Posts
Well, I reckon the CAS guys could just own up to their experience and race guns, honest like a real cowboy. Y'all figure I'm just too naive?
I wonder, how many BLRs, 1895s, 1886s, Win 94s, etc. are set up for time trials?
Sincerely,
Hobie
"We are all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best that we find in our travels is an honest friend." Robert Louis Stevenson
The Stonewall Brigade
Shooting with Hobie
marlinman93
Advanced Levergunner
6223 Posts
Just another suggestion here. You need to decide on the number of cartridges fired since not all levers have the same length mag tube. Some full 24" mags, half mags, 20" mags, etc... Need to come up with a number that works for the shortest, and the rest will work fine.
Early Marlins and Singleshot rifles.Griff
Advanced Levergunner
USA
5495 Posts
I'd suggest:
- 9 for the pistol caliber guns, as that's the max for the Marlin 1894 in the longer pistol calibers and a carbine length barrel unless the mag spring has been cut down. They may hold more if you use some shorter length cartridges, like the .38 spl in a .357, or the .44 spl in the .44 mag.
- 5 for the rifle cartridges in the 94 Winchesters or 336 marlins as that's the max rifles like the 64 or, IIRC, any of the 2/3 magazines versions will hold.
- 5 again for the 1886s.
- 4 for the 1985 Winchester or Brownings.
I'm not knowledgeable enough about the Savage 99s or Winchester 88s to make a suggestion.
Griff & "Poco"There is a fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
caco
Levergunner 2.0
USA
477 Posts
Don't have many guns I haven't tinkered with
Dave
Kind of like racing STOCK
Edited by - caco on 11/14/2006 1:25:14 PMHobie
Moderator
USA
19228 Posts
Originally posted by marlinman93
Just another suggestion here. You need to decide on the number of cartridges fired since not all levers have the same length mag tube. Some full 24" mags, half mags, 20" mags, etc... Need to come up with a number that works for the shortest, and the rest will work fine.
Early Marlins and Singleshot rifles.
Sincerely,
Hobie
"We are all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best that we find in our travels is an honest friend." Robert Louis Stevenson
The Stonewall Brigade
Shooting with Hobie
Hobie
Moderator
USA
19228 Posts
I should add that if a prospective "contestant" just wants to game this to death, to heck with it. I didn't propose it for the rules fun, but for the shooting fun.
Sincerely,
Hobie
"We are all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best that we find in our travels is an honest friend." Robert Louis Stevenson
The Stonewall Brigade
Shooting with Hobie
JerryB
Senior Levergunner
USA
1122 Posts
Hobie I fully agree with you, don't let this get to complicated. Let's just have some fun with it.
Jerryglbrt352
Levergunner 3.0
USA
755 Posts
Yeah, too many rules will get in the way of people having a good time with their favorite rifles. Besides, I'M gonna win anyways regardless of the rules!
I love cheap guns.Griff
Advanced Levergunner
USA
5495 Posts
glbrt352, you're going to have some competition, all donations will be cheerfully accepted!
Griff & "Poco"There is a fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
Old Savage
Advanced Levergunner
USA
7192 Posts
That's the spirit boys!
"Here in the High Desert of Southern California"Ganjiro
Advanced Levergunner
South Sandwich Islands
4311 Posts
What, no handicapped division for us disabled guys shooting CB Caps out of our Henrys?
ILLEGITIMUS NON CARBORUNDUM
Hobie
Moderator
USA
19228 Posts
Originally posted by Ganjiro
What, no handicapped division for us disabled guys shooting CB Caps out of our Henrys?
Sincerely,
Hobie
"We are all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best that we find in our travels is an honest friend." Robert Louis Stevenson
The Stonewall Brigade
Shooting with Hobie
knothead
Levergunner
USA
14 Posts
Ive got a timer here in NE OK. We teach leverguns to cops, so tyhis ought to be FUN. The Sgt and I shoot 1895's with 300's and 405's at bp fps. Thats 60 of goex over a 300, 55 over a 405. Might need to bump that up for the comp, but I need to know a fps for the full house bp round or a "factory" 405.
I also shoot the 3030 at 1400 fps, but thatll not do for this.
Now if some guys want to get together some weekend I'll find a range here, well run some times and have some fun. This could become a third saturday at the range deal with some other stuff too, if there was an interest.
pan lubed and shot as cast - ding there goes ten in a row :)
